# 4d) Cube puzzles must be scrambled with the white (or the lightest colour by default) face on top and green (or the darkest adjacent face by default) on the front. What if the white face of the puzzles replaced by black? I heard two opinions about this, the first one is scrambling with black (replacement of white) on top and green on front. The second opinion is scrambling with yellow (considered to be the lightest color) and green (the second darkest after black). For me, the second opinion is more logical, but the first one is also considered logical by some. For example, in Cyber Open 2011, they scrambled it with black on top and green on front. (See the red circle) [img:2szknizp]http://api.ning.com/files/5lFEobEVMiIbRR2xJIggY1cPAOMnesvMCu9mfpR5VdsvX4Zbsz-glbN1pZga3zkf8GGympK0fNqQE4Na0-hsAz9mJd4gly9Y/CyberOpen.jpg[/img:2szknizp] Also, we should have clear definition which color is more lighter than others (is cyan lighter than yellow?). ~ardianto

For me, beside a possible arguement about which colour is lighter than another (as you say "is yellow lighter then cyan?") the regulation is perfectly clear. From the two options that you state the first option is obviously incorrect. The regulation says: If there is no white, then "the lightest colour face" must be on top. This is surely not the black one! If we assume yellow to be the lightest colour (when there is no white), then option 2 is the correct one. I further claim that yellow is clearly the lightest color on a cube with standard colours but white replaced by black.

I just recognize that this is the perfect thread to bring a similar point: I'm often asked in competition how Pyraminxes shall be held for scrambling. Obviously the rule for cube puzzles cannot be applied as there is no face on top. So I'd really like to have an additional rule (or a little note in the same paragraph) for Pyraminx.

I agree that the regulation is clear about the rule, in that the next lightest colour should be used on top. However in my experience this is a rule that is only enforced when the colour scheme of a cube handed up does not resemble one of the "standard" schemes (I have never actually seen this occur in competition). When someone hands up a cube with an otherwise "standard" colour scheme, but with black replacing white, in my experience the black has always been used as the top face for scrambling. This makes the most sense because it means the competitor still gets all of the other 5 colours in the same place as everyone else. While this may be irrelevant for some solving methods and for those people whom are colour neutral when solving, it would be foolish to deny that the vast majority of cubers solve using CFOP with white/black as their cross colour. For the sake of fairness it makes sense to scramble these cubes with black as a direct replacement for white.

Perfect "fairness" can't be accomplished as some people using CFOP start with another color than white/black/yellow. Fairness for "the vast majority" is not fairness in my opinion, so at least I would prefer following clear rules, instead of using some unwritten convention to acheive "more fairness"

Also, clarification for pyraminx scrambles would be good. The regulations only cover cubic puzzles. We can use the same principle for the square-1 and megaminx, but the pyraminx doesn't have a top side.

For pyraminx, I usually ask the scrambler to do it with red on front face and blue on down face. Based on the picture of scrambling software: http://worldcubeassociation.org/regulat ... nx2010.htm It works on most pyraminx color scheme. But I agree clearer scrambling orientation regulation for pyraminx is needed

[quote="Dene":2nwvp0yf]I agree that the regulation is clear about the rule, in that the next lightest colour should be used on top. However in my experience this is a rule that is only enforced when the colour scheme of a cube handed up does not resemble one of the "standard" schemes (I have never actually seen this occur in competition). When someone hands up a cube with an otherwise "standard" colour scheme, but with black replacing white, in my experience the black has always been used as the top face for scrambling. This makes the most sense because it means the competitor still gets all of the other 5 colours in the same place as everyone else. While this may be irrelevant for some solving methods and for those people whom are colour neutral when solving, it would be foolish to deny that the vast majority of cubers solve using CFOP with white/black as their cross colour. For the sake of fairness it makes sense to scramble these cubes with black as a direct replacement for white.[/quote:2nwvp0yf] Also makes it easier for scramblers too, especially in the interest of time and staying on schedule. There are many pre-stickered cubes which substitute black for white (white V-Cubes for one), which otherwise follow the standard colour scheme (although some might substitute purple for orange, as is the case with Lan Lan 2x2x2s). However, during the last competition I attended (acting as scrambler), I was required to have the yellow side up on cubes substituting black stickers for white, which "could" make things potentially easier or harder for those who are not colour neutral (although I'm not sure if it's statistically significant).

Because there are many cubes with black replacing white, which are solved as if the black side was a white side, I think the regulation should reflect this fact. We should be scrambling those cubes with black on top and green on front; otherwise, non-color-neutral people using those cubes will actually get different scrambles than others. I think the spirit of the regulation is to try to give the same scramble as often as possible despite different color schemes, and allowing for black being in place of white would do this. 4d) NxNxN puzzles must be scrambled with the white face on top (or black if there is no white, or the lightest color if neither white nor black appears) and the green face on the front (or the darkest adjacent face if there is not exactly one green face). The "exactly one green" is to deal with the theoretical case of light green opposite dark green. Also, we should probably add some other regulations for other puzzles: 4d1) Pyraminx must be scrambled with the white face on the front (or the lightest color if there is no white) and the green face on bottom (or the darkest adjacent face if there is not exactly one green face). 4d2) Square-1 has only two possible scrambling orientations. Out of the two, choose the one with the white face on top (or black if there is no white, or the lighter color if neither white nor black appears). 4d3) Megaminx must be scrambled with the white face on top (or black if there is no white, or the lightest color if neither white nor black appears) and the green face on the front (or the darkest adjacent face if there is not exactly one green face). 4d4) Clock must be scrambled starting with the '12' direction up, and the lighter side of the clock on the front.

[quote="qqwref":34ywaadx] 4d) NxNxN puzzles must be scrambled with the white face on top (or black if there is no white, or the lightest color if neither white nor black appears) and the green face on the front (or the darkest adjacent face if there is not exactly one green face). 4d3) Megaminx must be scrambled with the white face on top (or black if there is no white, or the lightest color if neither white nor black appears) and the green face on the front (or the darkest adjacent face if there is not exactly one green face).[/quote:34ywaadx] These two can be merged. [quote:34ywaadx]The "exactly one green" is to deal with the theoretical case of light green opposite dark green.[/quote:34ywaadx] It actually happens with the Cubikon megaminx, which has two different greens neighbouring the white face. I usually put the dark one on front because I think it's in the spirit of the regulations, but I admit they are unclear about this [quote:34ywaadx]4d2) Square-1 has only two possible scrambling orientations. Out of the two, choose the one with the white face on top (or black if there is no white, or the lighter color if neither white nor black appears).[/quote:34ywaadx] With Square-1 you get to choose the front face, not the top face. I would rewrite your proposition the following way: 4d2) Square-1 has only two possible scrambling orientations. Out of the two, choose the one with the green face on front (or the darkest color if there is not exactly one green face).