The Vcube 2 bombed version is limit with [quote:2jplx0t1]3h) No modifications are allowed that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle. Some examples of enhancing the basic concept are: new moves are possible, normal moves are impossible, [b:2jplx0t1]more pieces are visible[/b:2jplx0t1], colours on the backside of the puzzle are visible, moves are done automatically, more or other solved states.[/quote:2jplx0t1] If you see your Vcube2 on top, you can see all the color of top piece

Judging from the images I have seen on v-cubes.com it looks like the same curve as the pillowed 7x7x7. It also looks to me like you can perhaps see side stickers when view directly from the top, but no pieces. I don't think that these new 2x2's are in conflict with the regulations. I've just ordered a set of both and I'll upload some images when I get them.

For 777, ther is only pillowed thus there are NOT more visible piece than a "normal" cube. the normal is pillowed

You might be right regarding the V2b. I also thought of that some time ago, but we have to check it live to see how it really is. For 2x2, the records are so low now, that's almost impossible to get an advantage because of this, but we have to take into account that we don't care only about the best times (records), but also about the average competitors...with averages of 8-10s and even with higher averages....like 15s-20s. For those, the V2b might really be an advantage and make a difference compared to a normal shaped cube. That's what I think at this moment. I didn't touch a V2b yet. Also... I don't see why should we should use a pillowed cube as long as a perfectly squared one exist. We have to decide what's the limit of "roundness" of a cube. Why not use a sphere? If you'd ask me, at this moment I would allow only the cube shaped cubes.

There are no special regulations for the 7x7 because it's the only available model. It is counted as a Rubiks cube and the same regulations cover the 7x7. Also there are no more visible pieces only more visible stickers. We should set a permitted curve limit just like we have a permitted height limit for tiles.

Do take into account that xb27 is coming out with his cubic 7x7 soon. I guess this will make the pillowed version illegal then? Here are a few videos: 1. The Cube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBXOFm0GxIQ 2. A Solve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqbMF-AKmDI

[url:34tcpg4n]http://cubing.dk/v2-1.jpg[/url:34tcpg4n] [url:34tcpg4n]http://cubing.dk/v2-2.jpg[/url:34tcpg4n] [url:34tcpg4n]http://cubing.dk/v2-3.jpg[/url:34tcpg4n] It is possible to see the side stickers when viewed directly from the top. But I tilt my cube slightly when solving and then it's not really any different. I personally don't like the pillowed version as it has poor grip. (Played with it for 5 minutes and I suck at 2x2) I would allow it but never use it myself.

It would just be totally exaggerated to not allow it in competition. My 2 cents...

Has the WCA still not statued on this issue ? I think we need a clear answer before the World Championship so that people don't go there with a pillowed 2x2 or even a pillowed 3x3...

The pillowed 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5, 6x6 cannot be used in WCA competitions, except for blindfolded events. The pillowed 7x7 can be used in WCA competitions, at least until a cubic version of 7x7 is generally available and widely used.

just my 2 cents. if pillowed cubes are not allowed for speedcubing (though no one will use it for speed anyway) because "more pieces are visible", there's no reason that the board doesn't also ban them in bld events. in theory you will also be able to observe more quickly with the pillowed cubes than normal ones(thus less observation time in theory)

[quote="Ron":21hgu5uh]The pillowed 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5, 6x6 cannot be used in WCA competitions, except for blindfolded events. The pillowed 7x7 can be used in WCA competitions, at least until a cubic version of 7x7 is generally available and widely used.[/quote:21hgu5uh] Can you reference the regulations that indicate why 2x2 is different from 7x7? I'm guessing the majority of competitions have allowed pillowed 2x2's since this wasn't clarified for 6 months. But with US Nationals very close, it would be bad to change it now. Perhaps clarification should be made for the 2012 regulations instead?

[quote:2sfcizgm]Can you reference the regulations that indicate why 2x2 is different from 7x7?[/quote:2sfcizgm] The pillow version for 2x2 Cube came out long after the normal version. The pillow version for 7x7 Cube has been the standard for a couple of years now. Also, the advantage for a 2x2 Cube seems to be higher than for a 7x7 Cube. Although I cannot confirm that scientifically. [quote:2sfcizgm]I'm guessing the majority of competitions have allowed pillowed 2x2's since this wasn't clarified for 6 months.[/quote:2sfcizgm] I am surprised that there were competitions where the pillowed version for 2x2 was allowed. In the competitions that I delegated I have only been asked once whether a pillowed version could be used. The regulations are already clear on this subject. And we have had similar cases with the transparent cubes. [quote:2sfcizgm]But with US Nationals very close, it would be bad to change it now.[/quote:2sfcizgm] It would be worse to officially accept it now. Also, there is still enough time to prepare a good non-pillowed cube.

[quote="Ron":y6kn2ku6]The pillowed 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5, 6x6 cannot be used in WCA competitions, except for blindfolded events. The pillowed 7x7 can be used in WCA competitions, at least until a cubic version of 7x7 is generally available and widely used.[/quote:y6kn2ku6] Why blindfolded events are excepted? IMO, if this is a similar case with transparent cubes, we should allow transparent cubes in blindfolded events too.

Same for the 6-Colored GuHong: Is that cube allowed for BLD events (as it was already handeled during Czech Open)?

Someone only recently told me about the use of pillowed, transparent and non-stickered cubes in the blindfolded events. I had not thought about that before. So yes, pillowed, transparent and non-stickered cubes (like the 6 coloured Guhong) are acceptable in blindfolded events only.

Now the cubic version of 7x7 is available: http://51morefun.com/index.php?main_pag ... cts_id=659 What's your opinion? Should we still allow pillowed 7x7 V-cube?

[quote="Ron":agydlh5d] The pillowed 7x7 can be used in WCA competitions, at least until a cubic version of 7x7 is generally available [b:agydlh5d]and widely used.[/b:agydlh5d][/quote:agydlh5d] I think the WCA shouldn't force everybody to buy a new 7^3 right now. But if the Shengshou actually becomes the most popular 7^3, then yes, the V7 should be banned.

I don't think the V7 should ever be banned from competitions! First of all it is very inconsistent to ban a puzzle which has been officially used for 3 years and very annoying to force every competitor to buy a new puzzle. But more important: [quote:31t2gpmh]3h) No modifications are allowed that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle. Some examples of enhancing the basic concept are: new moves are possible, normal moves are impossible, more pieces are visible, colours on the backside of the puzzle are visible, moves are done automatically, more or other solved states.[/quote:31t2gpmh] I disagree, that this rule is violated by the V7 while pillowed 2x2x2-6x6x6 do violate the rule. The crucial point is "the basic concept of a puzzle". The V7 was the first physical 7x7x7 ever produced. It was also the only 7x7x7 for some years, especially it was the only 7x7x7 when the official "7x7x7 Cube" event was added. So the puzzle which was added was simply the V7 which is a pillowed 7x7x7. Due to this: if we talk about the basic concept of a 7x7x7, how could we not refer to the V7? Thus I see no violation.

[quote="SebastienAuroux":36ujt3ww]The V7 was the first physical 7x7x7 ever produced.[/quote:36ujt3ww] First one mass produced, but some people did make cubic 7x7's before then.

Well, after having tested the Shengshou 7x7x7 this weekend I see another important point: The cube feels huge when using it (comparable to the 8x8x8 to my mind). I think I have quite average sized hands, but I had some problems handling it compared to the V7.

Imho a pillowed 3x3 should not be allowed to use for BLD if it's also not allowed for speedsolving. The advantage you have on the pillowed cube is that you can see more faces with just one blink of an eye, this also helps in seeing more faces at a time during memorization of blindfolded events. Also: allowing pillowed cubes only in 3x3 BLD and not in 3x3 speed will imho cause confusion among competitors. The advantage in speedsolving and blindfolded solving is thus the 'same'. A 6 coloured guhong is a bit different since you actually need to do a bit of a move to see any extra colours. Imho this puzzle is 'less bad' than a pillowed cube if the reason for not allowing it in speedsolving is that you can see more than just 3 faces in one blink of an eye. This advantage is already there without doing a part of a move on a pillowed cube. Also for this puzzle I think it's a bad idea to allow it for one event, but not allow it for another. I think it's quite clear the possible advantage of a 6 coloured guhong is smaller than a pillowed cube btw. Main point in both of the puzzles is that IF the reasoning for not allowing it in speedsolving is that you can see a bit more of the cube than a standard 3x3, this advantage is still there for blindfolded inspection. 7x7: The first cube that was widely available was pillowed, the only cubes that were used for the first few years were all pillowed (IF at all there is probably a 10.000 to 1 use of pillowed cubes at the moment). To the majority of the cubing world the pillowed cube is the standard. Therefore I think it would be bad if the pillowed version of this puzzle would ever be illegal. My personal experience with pillowed cubes is that IF any difference, a pillowed 7x7 is actually a disadvantage because when doing U moves the surface you have to hit with your index finger is actually smaller than on a cubic-version, thus increasing the chance of 'missing' the BUR sticker.

So let me pose this question to people: Would it really matter if people could see the extra colors if they were using a pillowed cube? I mean seriously, if it's going to make that much of a difference, and everyone else has access to the same thing, why not? Look at the tennis rackets, golf clubs, baseball gloves, etc. All of them evolved to give an advantage. Why not cubing?

Becouse of current regulations: 3h) No modifications are allowed that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle. Some examples of enhancing the basic concept are: new moves are possible, normal moves are impossible, [u:22gutcc8]more pieces are visible[/u:22gutcc8], [u:22gutcc8]colours on the backside of the puzzle are visible[/u:22gutcc8], moves are done automatically, more or other solved states.

[quote="Stefan Łapicki":3vxf3l4e]Becouse of current regulations: 3h) No modifications are allowed that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle. Some examples of enhancing the basic concept are: new moves are possible, normal moves are impossible, [u:3vxf3l4e]more pieces are visible[/u:3vxf3l4e], [u:3vxf3l4e]colours on the backside of the puzzle are visible[/u:3vxf3l4e], moves are done automatically, more or other solved states.[/quote:3vxf3l4e] Yes, I mean why not get rid of that regulation. Would being able to see pieces like that lead to such a giant disparity? If people say, "Well, the original cube didn't do that". Well, the original cube also turned like crap. And it didn't have purple stickers. But we allow any color combo (as long as it's 6 unique) and any lube/tuning you want to do.

[quote="BryanLogan":22zck8ag]Yes, I mean why not get rid of that regulation. Would being able to see pieces like that lead to such a giant disparity? [/quote:22zck8ag]Well, the disparity is near to 0 and of course more important for a 2x2 than a 7x7. I quite agree with your 2nd statement, but I'm afraid if we get rid of that regulation there are chances we will see competitors using balls instead of cubes or who knows what other shapes? So, I think the regulation should exist in order to keep cubing in "normal" standards. PS - I totally agree with Erik's statement about not allowing these cubes in BLD either.

[quote="BryanLogan":aajzhucw]Look at the tennis rackets, golf clubs, baseball gloves, etc. All of them evolved to give an advantage.[/quote:aajzhucw] Swimsuits evolved to give an advantage, and got banned: http://reachforthewall.com/2009/07/24/s ... id=artslot

[quote="StefanPochmann":3gyxuorr][quote="BryanLogan":3gyxuorr]Look at the tennis rackets, golf clubs, baseball gloves, etc. All of them evolved to give an advantage.[/quote:3gyxuorr] Swimsuits evolved to give an advantage, and got banned: http://reachforthewall.com/2009/07/24/s ... id=artslot[/quote:3gyxuorr] In Javelin Throw, the javelin has been redesign to perform poorer in terms of flight distance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javelin_th ... _redesigns

Not to mention the heavy regulation of Formula 1 cars over time.