1st round 3x3 restrictions

rxdeath (2009-01-30 19:47:09 +0000)
one thing that has become more prevalent as more and more people sign up for competitions is that some events are suffering because of others, mainly bigcubes vs. 3x3. a good example is sf09 where the revenge cutoff was 1:10, and the professor cutoff was 2:10. yet there are people that were allowed to do complete averages on 3x3 who's single time were well over 1 or even 2 minutes. this seems unfair because those of us that practice and have worked reasonably hard to get ok times on 4x4 and 5x5 are being cutout at the hands of people who never practice or at least very little, because for example, we all know that a sub 60 3x3 average isn't that hard to get with a little practice. i think we should start catering a little more to the people that have put the effort in, instead of having a huge playground with everyone and their mom that has every touched a 3x3 cube getting an average of 5. if we can restrict bigcubes to a combined final where you get 2 solves and are cut if you don't make a certain time, then i think it should be the same way for 3x3, with an appropriate level of cutoff. (ie: having 2:10 cutoff for revenge and 60 second cutoff for 3x3 is not proportionally 'fair'). while i think everyone should get a chance to complete i think its also appropriate to honor the commitment shown by those that have worked the hardest. edit: i know this is mostly an organizational thing, but since it would be a big change in ideas, i was looking for feedback/pros/cons of this idea from the community. i know organization is very difficult, but maybe this change in ideas would help time not be such a problem at large events.
anders (2009-01-30 23:18:57 +0000)
I appreciate the problem, but my solution is different. I think that everyone should be allowed to make an average. Thus for example, if I as an organiser and due to time constraints have to choose between hosting both 4x and 5x with combined finals and hosting only one of the events with full average for everyone, I would prefer the latter. IMHO, this is in the spirit of the WCA: more competitions in more countries with more people and more fun, under fair conditions. ("more events" is not included in the slogan...) /Anders
rxdeath (2009-01-31 00:14:20 +0000)
i agree with your ideals, but i'm starting to doubt how realistic it is to apply that. with the size of tournaments lately, we could get to the point where we ONLY have enough time to run 3x3. so should we start considering other separate tournaments for bigcubes (seems unlikely to work imho), or is there a way to meet both ideas. my thinking was even if we limit 3x3 first round to a combined final type thing everyone would still get to compete, but those that have put more time into becoming good won't be punished at the hands of people who don't have the same time investment. 'more solves' is also not in the slogan :) i appreciate your comments, thanks for responding :D
blade740 (2009-01-31 00:57:42 +0000)
As I said on IRC earlier, I think this is a decision about the direction of the community: Do we want to stay as a "fun pastime" where everyone, regardless of skill, can come and have a good time, or do we want cubing to be a more serious sport, where those who practice hard get rewarded? Most people who solve big cubes (and especially in competition) are moderately experienced at the 3x3. A solver with a 60 second 3x3 average would probably average above 5 minutes on a 4x4 (assuming they practice as much on each cube). The cubers who really care will get their average in either event. Those that don't care enough to practice a bit before showing up at a competition will still get their two solves, but I don't think they should take solving time away from the dedicated cubers.
anders (2009-01-31 16:27:08 +0000)
Thanks, rxdeath :) It is possible to organise "qualification competitions" and then a closed competition for the top cubers from the qualification competitions. As I understand it, the last competition in Korea was like that. Same(?) goes for a Hungarian Championships and for unofficial competitions in Brunei. Maybe we should initiate a Cube Masters Competition (series) with only top cubers? Maybe start something similar to Ryder's Cup in golf (Europe vs America vs Asia...) Such kind of competitions would encourage and reward serious cubers without denying the moderate cuber an average in a regular competition. I have also been thinking about special competitions, such as Big Cube Competition, Blinfolded Competition, Non-Cubic Puzzles Competition. I think this is a good idea, since it is difficult to have all offcial events in one competition. But to make this happen, organisers need to coordinate their competitions... /Anders
DanCohen (2009-01-31 17:02:57 +0000)
Like I've said before, this is more of an organizational issue than anything. I don't think there's any reason to put a restriction on who can solve in competition. If an organizer wants to provide an average of 5 for everyone, so be it. I think it's a great idea for organizers to start implementing combined finals for 3x3 as well (since we do it in almost every other event), but I really don't think this is something that needs to be implemented in the regulations.
magicmania (2009-02-01 04:56:00 +0000)
This might be good for the US nationals or the World Championships. As for the competitions I am going to hold in Pittsburgh, I'm probably going to go with no cutoffs for 3x3's. =)
cubetalk (2009-02-01 15:01:02 +0000)
[quote="magicmania":l2hgf2vg]This might be good for the US nationals or the World Championships. [/quote:l2hgf2vg] Isn't that what the qualifacation rounds are for?
Bill B (2009-02-14 19:42:45 +0000)
Is it possible to have the competitions go past 5:00P.M.? With more time available, maybe things wouldn't be rushed. I know it would make for a long day, but has it been tried? Bill
cubetalk (2009-02-14 19:58:27 +0000)
[quote="Bill B":1isfbnu6]Is it possible to have the competitions go past 5:00P.M.? With more time available, maybe things wouldn't be rushed. I know it would make for a long day, but has it been tried? Bill[/quote:1isfbnu6] The time is not because of people getting tired, but the venue is reserved for a certain time
Bill B (2009-02-14 20:16:54 +0000)
Since this problem usually arises from the numbers of people that are coming to competitions, could we reserve the venue for a longer time? With the larger number of people, more money is collected for registration so it could help defer the additional cost. Bill
cubetalk (2009-02-14 20:23:31 +0000)
But it is impossible to predict how many people will come. You could wait to see how many people but by then, you need to plan the number of events and the days has already been set. The only way to predict is hold a competition once, then go back to that same place and hold it again
blade740 (2009-02-14 20:24:55 +0000)
Some competitions are held in public places that need to close, and before that, need to be cleaned up. Timers need to be packed away, tables need to be taken down. We can't exactly force the venue to stay open longer to accommodate cubers/spectators.
Bob (2009-02-15 05:15:39 +0000)
[quote="blade740":4org3h01]Some competitions are held in public places that need to close, and before that, need to be cleaned up. Timers need to be packed away, tables need to be taken down. We can't exactly force the venue to stay open longer to accommodate cubers/spectators.[/quote:4org3h01] This is true for most competitions I've been to: Newark Public Library and the Exploratorium, for example. At 5:00, they start to yell at you.
Bill B (2009-02-15 06:29:15 +0000)
I'm just trying to come up with some ideas. You wouldn't be forcing the venue to stay open longer and they wouldn't be yelling at you if you had an agreement to have the room until let's say 7:00. My question was has it been tried. I checked 2 places. 1 is a local fellowship house that sounds cost prohibitive but they said part of the cost was for insurance and I didn't know whether WCA has it's own insurance at events. The other was my church hall, but they have 5:30 mass on Sat. so that's out. I'll keep asking around. Bill