Fellow cubers, I want to propose to not allow POP's anymore starting January 1st, 2006. For 'best of' rounds you already do not get an extra attempt. For 'average' rounds you can already strike out the worst attempt. The number of POP's is going down. I think we don't need them anymore. For this WC 2005, the change is too big, but for 2006 this would be possible. What do you think? Thanks, Ron

I agree with the no POP change.

I also agree with not allowing an extra solve when (declaring) a pop.

I also agree. So when we pop, we can/must just fix it and continue, right?

I agree. Save the judges from scrambling one more cube, too.

Another advantage would be that it (ok, only slightly) increases my chances to ever win against Macky who pops much more often than i do

A good idéa, if you are doing bad in one round you can purpously force a pop if you got the knack and that is cheating I say. Besides, my cube will not ewer pop again because I glued the peices into it Bad thing is, the sides will not turn anymore the good thing about that is that the judges can't scramble my cube =)

Sorry to burst your bubble Stefan, but if we disallow pops in 2006, Macky would simply switch to a different cube. He used a very old/loose cube in the Dallas competition. As Lars Petrus said, in order for a pop to really affect you in an average competition, you would need to be popping 40% of the time which is simply not acceptable. The competitions which are measured by 'means' are events in which the competitor is very unlikely to pop. Personally, I think there's something seriously wrong if a 4x4x4 completely explodes on stage. Great for entertainment value, not so great for the judges.

Happy with a no pops rule. What happens in the event that a cube is put back wrong and finishes with a 2 edge swap or a single edge flip for example? Would you have to re-pop and fix it? DUncan

[quote="Duncan":1fln2jd7]Happy with a no pops rule. What happens in the event that a cube is put back wrong and finishes with a 2 edge swap or a single edge flip for example? Would you have to re-pop and fix it? DUncan[/quote:1fln2jd7] You're allowed to take out and change a maximum of 3 pieces to fix the parity. Also, fixing the puzzle can't give you a speed advantage by doing so in any way.

Hi, I basically agree with no pop rule. How should we do for the competitions with mean of 3 (all counting)? If everyone like it, it is OK. Think about 4x4. Leg break of center piece can happen during competiton. In that case the competitor can not continue his solving then can't set his time any more if POP is not allowed. I also think it will take too much time to average 3 of 5 for big cubes. One mistake by scrambler will make huge delay of competition. Here're the possible copetition styles. Mean of 3 (allowing one POP) Mean of 3 (not allowing POP) Average of 2of 4 (excluding best and worst) Middle of 3 (not allowing POP) Mean of 3 (allowing one POP) seems not bad. Thanks. Masayuki P.S. I wish anyone could give reply to my post about age group.

[quote="Masayuki":k5knszmr]Think about 4x4. Leg break of center piece can happen during competiton. In that case the competitor can not continue his solving then can't set his time any more if POP is not allowed.[/quote:k5knszmr] Right. Maybe we should still forgive this kind of puzzle defect. There's no reason we must treat all "puzzle defects" the same way.

I agree, perhaps we can distinguish between a "recoverable pop" such as replacing a piece, and a "non-recoverable pop" such as breaking the leg of a center on a larger cube. Also what happens if you pop an edge, replace in incorrectly, and later discover this? Are you allowed to repop to fix it? What if you popped two corners and an edge? You could later discover the flipped edge, fix it, then solve some more, discover the swapped corners (nobody's perfect under pressure) can you yet again re-pop to fix this? I'm not saying this to be annoying, I'm trying to be realistic. If I was solving in a hurry I might panic on a bad pop and not count cycles to make sure I put pieces back in correctly. I'm just asking what will happen. I haven't popped yet with a 25th anniversary cube so I guess I am now using those solely in comeptition I would just like to know what is allowable for fixing incorrectly fixed pops? Chris

Hi fellow cubers, Good point by Masayuki! Good addition by Chris. Actually the same goes for a 'best of 1' event. So for 'mean of 3' and 'best of 1' we should distinguish between unrecoverable puzzle defects (broken pieces) and recoverable puzzle defects (pops). I will write a text proposal. Have fun, Ron

I suppose I am the only one against this. I think it is fine how it is. I poped at Horace mann and I was glad to have another chance. No pops just puts more pressure on the competitors.

I also think pops should be allowed. "Mean of" with no pops is just ridiculous, because a person could have four ten-second solves and be disqualified for one pop. Also, I'm sure Bob remembers the time I accidentally implanted a hand grenade in his 4x4 at Midwest '05. I'd be okay with no pops in best of 3 or 5.

[quote="Ravi":3gcyqt79]a person could have four ten-second solves and be disqualified for one pop.[/quote:3gcyqt79] What are you talking about?!? You don't get disqualified.

[quote="Tyson":hn64wd9p]As Lars Petrus said, in order for a pop to really affect you in an average competition, you would need to be popping 40% of the time which is simply not acceptable.[/quote:hn64wd9p] No, you would not need to pop 40% of the time. For example, a person who pops 10% of the time (which admittedly is a little high) would have an 8.1% chance of popping twice out of five times. Even one pop (45% chance) would harm a speedcuber by making the slowest time count, though that isn't entirely undeserved. Also, in a relatively tense environment such as a competition, a speedcuber is more likely to pop than he/she is at home. [quote="Tyson":hn64wd9p]The competitions which are measured by 'means' are events in which the competitor is very unlikely to pop.[/quote:hn64wd9p] Ah, I didn't notice that. However, the rules say that "mean of 3" is preferred for minxes, and I've popped on a Megaminx a few times. This might be due to my unlubed, unprepared, and hardly ever used minx... has this happened to anyone else? [quote="StefanPochmann":hn64wd9p][quote="Ravi":hn64wd9p]a person could have four ten-second solves and be disqualified for one pop.[/quote:hn64wd9p] What are you talking about?!? You don't get disqualified.[/quote:hn64wd9p] I was talking about "mean of" rounds. I didn't know at the time that "mean of 5" does not exist, or that "mean of" is rarely used for 3x3. I think that if there is to be a "no pops" rule, there should be another rule disallowing "mean of 3" in events in which pops are common. Otherwise, I would not like to be the person whose mean is (30 + DNF/3). Thanks. -Ravi

Silly me. I really shouldn't cube while I type. I meant to say this in my last post: [quote="Ravi":274s9c7y][quote="StefanPochmann":274s9c7y][quote="Ravi":274s9c7y]a person could have four ten-second solves and be disqualified for one pop.[/quote:274s9c7y] What are you talking about?!? You don't get disqualified.[/quote:274s9c7y] I was talking about "mean of" rounds. I didn't know at the time that "mean of 5" does not exist, or that "mean of" is rarely used for 3x3.[/quote:274s9c7y] Also, many pops are so bad that replacing the pieces takes too much time to keep a reasonable time, especially if a piece falls off the stage and into the audience. In these cases, the competitor is not disqualified, but has no chance of getting a good mean. (See the above comments on unrecoverable pops.) Happy cubing!

Isn't that the price they pay for popping? Popping is the fault of the cuber and not the puzzle. The WCA should not compensate people because they make inaccurate turns.