V2b

Discuss the WCA regulations.

V2b

Postby spols » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:15 pm

The Vcube 2 bombed version is limit with
3h) No modifications are allowed that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle. Some examples of enhancing the basic concept are: new moves are possible, normal moves are impossible, more pieces are visible, colours on the backside of the puzzle are visible, moves are done automatically, more or other solved states.


If you see your Vcube2 on top, you can see all the color of top piece
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Re: V2b

Postby MadsMohr » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:17 pm

Judging from the images I have seen on v-cubes.com it looks like the same curve as the pillowed 7x7x7.
It also looks to me like you can perhaps see side stickers when view directly from the top, but no pieces. I don't think that these new 2x2's are in conflict with the regulations.

I've just ordered a set of both and I'll upload some images when I get them.
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Re: V2b

Postby spols » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:26 pm

For 777, ther is only pillowed thus there are NOT more visible piece than a "normal" cube. the normal is pillowed
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Re: V2b

Postby Radu » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:23 pm

You might be right regarding the V2b. I also thought of that some time ago, but we have to check it live to see how it really is.

For 2x2, the records are so low now, that's almost impossible to get an advantage because of this, but we have to take into account that we don't care only about the best times (records), but also about the average competitors...with averages of 8-10s and even with higher averages....like 15s-20s. For those, the V2b might really be an advantage and make a difference compared to a normal shaped cube. That's what I think at this moment. I didn't touch a V2b yet.

Also... I don't see why should we should use a pillowed cube as long as a perfectly squared one exist. We have to decide what's the limit of "roundness" of a cube. Why not use a sphere? If you'd ask me, at this moment I would allow only the cube shaped cubes.
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Re: V2b

Postby MadsMohr » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:20 am

There are no special regulations for the 7x7 because it's the only available model. It is counted as a Rubiks cube and the same regulations cover the 7x7. Also there are no more visible pieces only more visible stickers.

We should set a permitted curve limit just like we have a permitted height limit for tiles.
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Re: V2b

Postby theace » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:45 pm

Do take into account that xb27 is coming out with his cubic 7x7 soon. I guess this will make the pillowed version illegal then? Here are a few videos:

1. The Cube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBXOFm0GxIQ
2. A Solve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqbMF-AKmDI
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Re: V2b

Postby MadsMohr » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:44 am

http://cubing.dk/v2-1.jpg
http://cubing.dk/v2-2.jpg
http://cubing.dk/v2-3.jpg

It is possible to see the side stickers when viewed directly from the top. But I tilt my cube slightly when solving and then it's not really any different. I personally don't like the pillowed version as it has poor grip. (Played with it for 5 minutes and I suck at 2x2)

I would allow it but never use it myself.
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Re: V2b

Postby Sebastien » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:42 pm

It would just be totally exaggerated to not allow it in competition. My 2 cents...
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Re: V2b

Postby adragast » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:54 pm

Has the WCA still not statued on this issue ? I think we need a clear answer before the World Championship so that people don't go there with a pillowed 2x2 or even a pillowed 3x3...
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Re: V2b

Postby Ron » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:54 pm

The pillowed 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5, 6x6 cannot be used in WCA competitions, except for blindfolded events.
The pillowed 7x7 can be used in WCA competitions, at least until a cubic version of 7x7 is generally available and widely used.
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Re: V2b

Postby r_517 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:32 pm

just my 2 cents.

if pillowed cubes are not allowed for speedcubing (though no one will use it for speed anyway) because "more pieces are visible", there's no reason that the board doesn't also ban them in bld events.
in theory you will also be able to observe more quickly with the pillowed cubes than normal ones(thus less observation time in theory)
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Re: V2b

Postby BryanLogan » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:31 pm

Ron wrote:The pillowed 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5, 6x6 cannot be used in WCA competitions, except for blindfolded events.
The pillowed 7x7 can be used in WCA competitions, at least until a cubic version of 7x7 is generally available and widely used.


Can you reference the regulations that indicate why 2x2 is different from 7x7?

I'm guessing the majority of competitions have allowed pillowed 2x2's since this wasn't clarified for 6 months. But with US Nationals very close, it would be bad to change it now. Perhaps clarification should be made for the 2012 regulations instead?
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Re: V2b

Postby Ron » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:33 pm

Can you reference the regulations that indicate why 2x2 is different from 7x7?

The pillow version for 2x2 Cube came out long after the normal version. The pillow version for 7x7 Cube has been the standard for a couple of years now.
Also, the advantage for a 2x2 Cube seems to be higher than for a 7x7 Cube. Although I cannot confirm that scientifically.

I'm guessing the majority of competitions have allowed pillowed 2x2's since this wasn't clarified for 6 months.

I am surprised that there were competitions where the pillowed version for 2x2 was allowed. In the competitions that I delegated I have only been asked once whether a pillowed version could be used.
The regulations are already clear on this subject. And we have had similar cases with the transparent cubes.

But with US Nationals very close, it would be bad to change it now.

It would be worse to officially accept it now. Also, there is still enough time to prepare a good non-pillowed cube.
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Re: V2b

Postby ardianto » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:34 am

Ron wrote:The pillowed 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5, 6x6 cannot be used in WCA competitions, except for blindfolded events.
The pillowed 7x7 can be used in WCA competitions, at least until a cubic version of 7x7 is generally available and widely used.


Why blindfolded events are excepted?
IMO, if this is a similar case with transparent cubes, we should allow transparent cubes in blindfolded events too.
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Re: V2b

Postby Sebastien » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:45 am

Same for the 6-Colored GuHong: Is that cube allowed for BLD events (as it was already handeled during Czech Open)?
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Re: V2b

Postby Ron » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:05 pm

Someone only recently told me about the use of pillowed, transparent and non-stickered cubes in the blindfolded events. I had not thought about that before.
So yes, pillowed, transparent and non-stickered cubes (like the 6 coloured Guhong) are acceptable in blindfolded events only.
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Re: V2b

Postby ardianto » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:34 am

Now the cubic version of 7x7 is available:
http://51morefun.com/index.php?main_pag ... cts_id=659

What's your opinion? Should we still allow pillowed 7x7 V-cube?
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Re: V2b

Postby TMOY » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:18 am

Ron wrote:The pillowed 7x7 can be used in WCA competitions, at least until a cubic version of 7x7 is generally available and widely used.

I think the WCA shouldn't force everybody to buy a new 7^3 right now. But if the Shengshou actually becomes the most popular 7^3, then yes, the V7 should be banned.
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Re: V2b

Postby Sebastien » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:44 pm

I don't think the V7 should ever be banned from competitions!

First of all it is very inconsistent to ban a puzzle which has been officially used for 3 years and very annoying to force every competitor to buy a new puzzle.

But more important:

3h) No modifications are allowed that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle. Some examples of enhancing the basic concept are: new moves are possible, normal moves are impossible, more pieces are visible, colours on the backside of the puzzle are visible, moves are done automatically, more or other solved states.


I disagree, that this rule is violated by the V7 while pillowed 2x2x2-6x6x6 do violate the rule.

The crucial point is "the basic concept of a puzzle". The V7 was the first physical 7x7x7 ever produced. It was also the only 7x7x7 for some years, especially it was the only 7x7x7 when the official "7x7x7 Cube" event was added. So the puzzle which was added was simply the V7 which is a pillowed 7x7x7. Due to this: if we talk about the basic concept of a 7x7x7, how could we not refer to the V7? Thus I see no violation.
Last edited by Sebastien on Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: V2b

Postby BryanLogan » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:30 am

SebastienAuroux wrote:The V7 was the first physical 7x7x7 ever produced.


First one mass produced, but some people did make cubic 7x7's before then.
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